Curse

trelloskilos · Sep 28, 2005, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

I just dont see the gameplay value of running at all, the argument seems to be that if you played the storyline once you have a right to be ran which is preposterous. If you are a pvp'r needing skills unlocked in a hurry and wanting to skip storyline. Use your faction thats why it was created. And just beause you completed game with one charactor then get ran with 2nd or 50th charactor, doesnt make you fit to be in FoW/UW or SF with 2nd or 50th charactor which you havent taken the time to master. Running is just making the PvE experience wrought with bad players who dont understand their skills.

It is preposterous, but having the "right" to be run is a false statement. No-one has the right to be run. Everybody (Including new players) has the choice of being run.

Also, Why should anyone just unlock their skills exclusively with PvP faction? Anet did intend for GW players to play a bit of both, and the advantage of PvP and PvErs is that they can UAS quicker.

Thirdly, getting a Drok Run alone does not make a character elegible for UW/FoW. You still have to ascend, which still means that you must complete at least 4 missions, plus solo your Doppleganger. By that time, I would think most people would have an idea of their skillset. Also, there are still players out there who have played every mission from the Great Northern wall to Hells Precipice, who STILL don't understand their skillset....

...and missions mean absolute fcuk all for a pure PvPer who just wants to get skill unlocks.

Quote:

IMHO spending two or three weeks on storyline creates a solid toon for both newbies and experienced players.

It might do, but then again, it might mean that experienced players drop out and stop playing GW altogether at the thought of having to do the more boring missions again.

Quote:

However, I must say that running is fun I've been running lonars just to fill in the pixals on my map and had a blast doing it. So I can see how runners enjoy it.

Well there you go. People run/are run for different reasons, some good, some bad. You do it for the sake of a challenge. Some do it so they can twink out in Ascalon Arena. Best thing to do is not to judge those who are run/being run until you know their reasons for it.

Dax · Sep 28, 2005, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by trelloskilos

It might do, but then again, it might mean that experienced players drop out and stop playing GW altogether at the thought of having to do the more boring missions again.

Being that this seems to be the most common excuse for repeat players, I would think that if it's you 2nd, 3rd, .....6th time these missions would be a breeze because you know what to do where to go. It's not like it takes months and months to do all the missions to reach level 75 or anything.

If the game is so great how come it's boring?

zehly · Sep 28, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Ok, for what it's worth.

Listen, runners. Don't feel bad. If there is one person on these forums who ADORES the work you do for her, it's me. And I to show it, I always pay well. I've paid up to 1k to get from Ascalon to Piken

And for Droknar runs, because I know it takes skill, I always toss 7-10k their way.

You guys rock. Don't forget that.

~zehly

Pac13man · Sep 28, 2005, 03:40 PM // 15:40

In my opinion, runners are here to stay whether people like them or not. I personally do NOT like them but until the game makers change the game, they are here to stay. I think they do more bad than good.

I assume the game creators made the game to be fun and challenging or no one would pay for it or play it. It's obvious you are supposed to cooperate and work together to advance the story and your own character's development. That's why henchmen will help but are not as good as a group of live, experienced players who know what they are doing.

From playing the game, I've come to realize that if you work hard, work together and play the game in the order it was meant to be played, you will find all the right armor you need, have all the money you need and get more satisfaction out of reaching the highest levels and completing the game. This is obviously what the game designers had in mind. This applies to trying different characters as well. So you remember the mission? Good. You did it as a warrior last time, now you're trying it as a mesmer or a monk. It's still challenging.

Runners, in my opinion, provide a way to circumvent this learning process and provide a diservice to players. Leveling up to 20 in a day is a worthless way to play the game. Running inexperienced players to Droks just to get armor deprives them of the challenge and learning curve of the game. You bypass everything the game makers intended you to do. Yeah, it's fun to run and it feels good to earn plats helping others circumvent the game play but its a shallow way to play and it provides only instant gratification to those you are running. Instant gratification and circumventing the system seem to be the mind-set of today's society anyway and it shows in the game. It's not something I want to learn.

If you want to help people advance, offer your expertise and go on hard missions with them.

matiasdu · Sep 28, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Running is a fun user created minigame. I like it.
I began running for myself, mostly some areas seemed more fun to run than to fight trough.
Then I beggan running my guildies.
Then one of 'em on a particular run, offered my running services to others for a fee. I didn't mind, nor cared any, I got my share.
I run people for free whenever they are headed more or less the same way I am. I only ever asked for donations, for whatever amount they feel like paying.
In my opinion anyone is free to play the game in the way they want to. After all, I hate trading and farming, so if I'm ever in need of a lot of cash fast, running is the only choice I would enjoy doing.

BTW: don't pm me asking for a run. I only offer when I feel like it, I don't do requests.

tomcruisejr · Sep 28, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56

i used to hate runners that smuggle low levels in droks. but witnessing a run made by geo stigma [he was asking for a devourer egg for free run back then, he ran my level 17 monk], my perspective changed.

running is something that people can specialize on. not all runners can do the droknar run. skilled and less skilled runners, we can distinguish one from the other.

only bad thing is that there are wannabe runners who scam our new players. that sucks.

low levels/new players in high level maps are fine. but they're gonna experience some difficulties in getting a party (unless some bored person wanna help all low levels on that outpost/map).

respect to runners. /salute

"Droknar Forge Running is a GuildWars (PVE) Tradition"

(some/most pvp players hate the w/mo but they forgot that a w/mo ran them to droks to "skill cap" because they cant get UAS.)

kawaii_bat · Sep 28, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Being run and running someone is a free choice 2 people make.

I don't see why it should be bad or not if someone wants to make money by running someone

or if someone doesn't want to spend a few weeks patiently leveling their character

You can tell if they are new players or not by the way they talk to you and the level they have. So just *don't* play in a party of all level 20s and one level 14 if you don't want to. No one is forcing you.

I think runners are a good thing, they give older players a chance to progress faster.
So what if newer players hitch a ride? If they have the money to pay for it, then they have the right to go. They can ruin the story and their own game play if they choose to, that doesn't mean they have to ruin it for you too.

Just ignore them.

It's all our own 50$ to waste.

AcesOverEights · Sep 28, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

I've worked my way to the Southern Shiverpeaks and never understood the whole running bit from a consumer angle, however the practice doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm not exactly taking in any 11lvl Mesmers into the party for the Ice Caves mission either. Not heard any begging to speak of. I will say that one of the funniest things I ever was a part of was a PUG breaking in fifteen different directions in the desert to run through to the portal. I was laughing myself silly at the end. The game is fine and runner's/runnees should continue to work the trade. I doubt I'll ever use them, but I darn sure want to try and solo run my way from Beacon's to Droknar's some day. (In fact, this should be some kind of quest or something.) I agree with Kawaii Bat, if you don't like them, "ignore them."

coolsti · Sep 30, 2005, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Why I hate the over popularity of running:

Last night, playing with a friend, first we started a conversation with a warrior looking to get to the next mission town from where we were. I said that we were doing the primary quest to get us to Ventaris refuge. So he offers to run us there. Like, to him, the entire point of the game was to be run from mission town to mission town, and the rest of the game doesn't exist. My point: it is getting hard to find party members that wish to play this game without running.

After explaining to him that we don't like to run, we joined and went out anyway. And due to some tactical blunder, we got ourselves in a bit of trouble along the way and aggro'ed too many enemy. So what did the guy do? Rather than fight, or retreat/resurrect/fight again (which would be the correct, tactical way that I wish to play the game) he just took off in a sprint to the next portal door. Good, he saved us from all dying, and he got us further in the quest, but he obviously missed the whole point: playing the game and accepting the challenge of it.

Then this happened: later on we met a really nice elementalist who is playing her first character. She went to Ventaris with us. When we got there I explained that Ventaris is a good place to upgrade armor, but she then asked why we didn't go to Droknars to get better armor. I explained that we wanted to follow the story line and get to Droknars when we get there. Now here is the killer: she replied that "running to Droknars was the only way to get there".

I find it very dissappointing that so many new players to the game have this misconception, that you can't get to Droknars if you don't get run there. I would suppose that is why a lot of new players let themselves get run there. I mean, if you think you can't reach it any other way, then might as well do it as level 8 instead of waiting til you are level 18.

aron searle · Sep 30, 2005, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Now here is the killer: she replied that "running to Droknars was the only way to get there".

Personally i belive this to be a problem with the storyline.

When i got to beacons perch (the first time) i did the quests that were available there, then headed back for my rewards.
Now this being my first time i was not sure were the next area was, the story gave me no real direction, no real "go this way do this" quest (unless i completly missed it, but then should i be able to?)

I realised that going straight to drokners was not the way to go, but the story does kinda flap about here. How did i find out where to go, by looking on the net for a map.

As for the actual drokner run, i got run there on my second character this way. I though that it looked so much fun that i decided to get my w/m out and have a go with him (it was another guildee). I have to say that it was extremly challenging and fun, for this reason alone i would like it to stay in one form or anther.

Quote:

Being that this seems to be the most common excuse for repeat players, I would think that if it's you 2nd, 3rd, .....6th time these missions would be a breeze because you know what to do where to go. It's not like it takes months and months to do all the missions to reach level 75 or anything.

If the game is so great how come it's boring?

I got run as i didnt want to do them again. I was unlocking skills.

Its very simple, i dont want to do certian missions again as i find them boring. Give me ONE good reason why i should do them again?

p.s. The fact that there easy is not a reason to do them.

MrEmence · Sep 30, 2005, 08:21 AM // 08:21

I do not aggree with runing, some say that older players should be able to run to draknar as they have already done the full storyline once or more times anyway so they can quickly get the skills that they want, but I have done all missions and all quest in 4 days, how much faster do you need? further new players that get run generaly dont know how to play there jobs and basicaly piss ppl off when they are in southern shiverpeaks at lvl 14 trying to get a party, so dont play with them, then they have to go back and do the quest and mission to get exp and more inportant skill in there job, so in my opinion running is pointless to those that do it and agrivating to those that have to deal with the low lvl noobs in high lvl areas.

aron searle · Sep 30, 2005, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

but I have done all missions and all quest in 4 days

Hmmmmm

Dont belive that, and if you have done it then i have to ask if you have a job or are on holiday (or at school).

And still, no-one seems to be able to give me ONE good reason as to why i should have to replay missions i find boring when i can skip them (on my second char).???

Pat The Transgender · Sep 30, 2005, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Random and unneeded interjection:

Ranger runners ftw

coolsti · Sep 30, 2005, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

And still, no-one seems to be able to give me ONE good reason as to why i should have to replay missions i find boring when i can skip them (on my second char).???

Well, if you come right down to it, no, there is no reason in my opinion why you should have to replay the PVE part of the game if you do not wish to. This is fine with me as long as you don't play the PVE part of Guild Wars. But what I object to is getting into parties in the PVE part of this game with people that have been run or who find replaying missions boring.

I have played most of the missions of this game many, many times, both in order to get my own 4 characters through them, but also to help friends that are near my level and also needing to do them (and who have not done them together with me). In the last two days I must have done the Wilds 6 or 7 times. I don't find them boring. Each party group is different, and so each time, tactics need to be altered a bit. I try new skill combinations, I use different characters with different professions. So doing the missions repeatedly is not boring to me at all (gosh, I am lucky, I am REALLY getting my money's worth out of Guild Wars

)

aron searle · Sep 30, 2005, 09:36 AM // 09:36

You misunderstand me or i didnt explain myself properly.

I have created a second charachter becasue i WANT to play the game again. I do enjoy most of the missions.

However there are some missions i would rather skip or get over and done with as i have either done them countless times (i.e ive done thirsty river more times than i can remember as i have helped people through).

This is where the drok run helps, In essence it makes it easier to play, and get through or skip those missions im bored with.

Quote:

But what I object to is getting into parties in the PVE part of this game with people that have been run or who find replaying missions boring.

I assume you fell like this as typicly there attitude to the mission is to get it done as quick as and to rush. Unfortanatly this is just how some people want to play the game.

Whenever i get into a mission with my new 2nd charachter i will make sure that i do not do this if there are others who want to play the game your way, or if i myself wish to do it properly.

Another thing that i assume you dont like is that they typicly are a few levels lower than the rest (ignoring the extreme rushers that are lvl 2 or whatever). What you have to remember is that although they are lower level, they hopefully are more skilled (hopefully) and the extra equip will help make up for there lower level.

generik · Sep 30, 2005, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by sybban

A lot people say the PvE is boring.

Do the entire thing solo, not skipping missions and tell me it's boring

Having done just that.. I have to say it it is truly very boring.

Reason?

1. Most of the earlier missions are not challenging at all, more of a pain/nuisance if anything else. Case in point: Divinity Coast.. truly the most boring mission ever.

2. Apart from the special areas like UW/FoW or GF/SF.. it is quite hard to actually feel that you have "earned" something. So what if you grinded 50 hours away through.. "do the entire thing solo, not skipping missions"?

What have you got to show for it?

10 platinium?

Pfft.

GW really needs a greater variety of items, trust me on this. Better still come up with PvE only weapons and 'Arena standard issues' for the purpose of "balance".

Right now it is very boring. VERY. BORING.

Enough said.

coolsti · Sep 30, 2005, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Consider two scenarios:

Scenario A: A party forms to go out on a mission like Divinity Coast. Everyone is very quiet, there is maybe only a little talk amongst the members. Things like "rdy?" and "gogogogogo". They start the mission. Everyone follows the one or two that take the initiative to go forward. The party does the mission with little or no communication. The mission gets done, everyone gets teleported to the next town, the group says thanks to each other, and everyone goes their separate ways.

Scenario B: A party forms to go out on a mission like Divinity Coast. There is a bit of idle chat, maybe in order to get to know one another, but mainly in order to ask who is taking what skills with them. They start the mission. But instead of just doing the mission silently, the group communicates a great deal. Not by trading with each other or by finding out who is doing PVP, etc., but by joking and just generally having a good time. The mission gets done, everyone gets teleported to the next town, and maybe the group altogether or in part continues to the next quest or mission, and maybe a few new names get added to the friend's list.

Scenario A bores the heck out of me, no matter what the mission or quest, but Scenario B is what I experience the majority of the time. Maybe because I am lucky or better at forming a group, maybe because I am a major contributor to the humor that goes on while doing a mission. At any rate, by playing the game in the manner of scenario B, even Divinity Coast is not boring to me. Its all a matter of how you play the game.

aron searle · Sep 30, 2005, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Scenario B: A party forms to go out on a mission like Divinity Coast. There is a bit of idle chat, maybe in order to get to know one another, but mainly in order to ask who is taking what skills with them. They start the mission. But instead of just doing the mission silently, the group communicates a great deal. Not by trading with each other or by finding out who is doing PVP, etc., but by joking and just generally having a good time. The mission gets done, everyone gets teleported to the next town, and maybe the group altogether or in part continues to the next quest or mission, and maybe a few new names get added to the friend's list.

And this is how i typicly try to play the game, generally chatting and being friendly, (when my eyes are not stuck to the red health bars on my new monk)

Like i said its just some people attitue to do this..

Quote:

Scenario A: A party forms to go out on a mission like Divinity Coast. Everyone is very quiet, there is maybe only a little talk amongst the members. Things like "rdy?" and "gogogogogo". They start the mission. Everyone follows the one or two that take the initiative to go forward. The party does the mission with little or no communication. The mission gets done, everyone gets teleported to the next town, the group says thanks to each other, and everyone goes their separate ways.

I agree this is very annoying.

Unless its a stupidly easy mission, i will not leave untill we have chosen a caller and chatted for abit (who does what ect). I also make it habit to not take peeps who dont responde when you talk to them.

Last night i was forming a party to help a guildee do a mission. it was just me and him, so i thought lets get some people.
As soon as i formed a team it was gogogogogog liek you described. My guildee whispered me that we should prob chuck em. But i was the mood to take people, you know be sociable.

Needless to say, he was right.

I dont think this is a symptom of rushing, but simply how some people play the game.

generik · Sep 30, 2005, 10:44 AM // 10:44

The sad thing is I try to be chatty and friendly when in parties too, but when others fail to response in kind.. you can't help but feel very stupid.

Wonder what's becoming of the world really.

MrEmence · Sep 30, 2005, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Yes i had 4 days off from work and was playing my fourth char, so I knew exactly what to do and where to go for each quest and mission. In my opinion online games are just as much about being social as it is about the game if not more, so the gogogogogo atitude sucks becuse I find they dont say much beyond we need to go faster, and i generaly just boot them as i do not have fun playing with them.